Episode 6

full
Published on:

11th Jan 2024

Self-leadership

What is self-leadership?

Why is it important?

How do you practice it?

These are all questions we discuss in this episode of How To Take The Lead.

Self-leadership is about how you show up as a leader and this can mean many things. It might be the boundaries you set and communicate. Perhaps it is how you are using your time and what this demonstrates to those around you. And it could be you need to prioritise your wellbeing.

Creating the conditions for your success - whatever you have determined that to be - requires you to be intentional in your self-leadership. This episode will give you practical advice and tips to support your self-leadership journey.

Resources and helpful links

About How to Take the Lead

How to Take the Lead is a show exploring all things leadership.

Every episode we explore a different part of life as a leader, questioning everything we've ever learnt and sharing a few of our own stories along the way.

If you want to learn how to do leadership your own way, join hosts Lee Griffith and Carrie-Ann Wade as they debunk myths, tackle stereotypes and generally put the leadership world to rights.

Get involved

If you enjoyed this episode why not subscribe to the podcast. We would love it if you left us a rating or review and feel free to share the link to this episode with anyone else you think would find it interesting.

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Transcript
Lee Griffith:

You think back to the early days you'll take the

Lee Griffith:

lead, we'd stop on a cocktail and we'd put the words in writes

Lee Griffith:

and now I stop on a cocktail and I'm fast asleep on the sofa

Lee Griffith:

within about five minutes. Welcome to how to take the lead

Lee Griffith:

the podcast where we challenge the myths and stereotypes of

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what it means to be a leader today, and help you to succeed

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in post without compromise.

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: I'm Lee Griffith and I'm Carrie Ann

Lee Griffith:

Wade. And together we will be your guides question everything

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we've ever learned about leadership, sharing our

Lee Griffith:

experiences along the way and inspiring you to make a real

Lee Griffith:

impact in your role visit how

Lee Griffith:

to take the lead.com For show notes past

Lee Griffith:

episodes and join our community

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: enjoy this episode

Lee Griffith:

welcome in the giggles listeners do not need to know what the

Lee Griffith:

start of trying to record this episode is felt like for the two

Lee Griffith:

of us. But let's crack on. Just that was almost that newsreader

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moment when that's what I was doing right.

Lee Griffith:

Yeah.

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Welcome to this episode of how to take the lead

Lee Griffith:

with me Carrie-Ann and the lovely Lee. Hello, Lee. How the

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devil are you?

Lee Griffith:

I'm I'm okay. I am I wish I was like turning up

Lee Griffith:

with the yay, go 2024 We've got this you can manage anything

Lee Griffith:

vibes. But um, but listener, I'm going to be honest, I'm not

Lee Griffith:

feeling it. I'm a bit tired. I've registered it's gonna be

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quite relevant this this episode. Because whilst I do try

Lee Griffith:

to practice all the things we're probably going to preach today.

Lee Griffith:

Even then it can still all go a bit a bit awry. It just needs a

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bit of rice sometimes doesn't it? And and you know what? I'm

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loving what you are practicing. They're

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Carrie-Ann Wade: being open, transparent and honest. So

Lee Griffith:

you're doing all the things that we say we want leaders to do. So

Lee Griffith:

thank you for sharing. And sorry to hear that you're feeling a

Lee Griffith:

bit jaded. I too am feeling a bit lackluster on the energy

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front. I'd love to say it was too much partying, but it

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absolutely isn't.

Lee Griffith:

No, no. What is a party at that age. Now, you, you

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think back to the early days, you would take the lead, we'd

Lee Griffith:

stop on a cocktail and we'd put the voting rights and now I stop

Lee Griffith:

on a cocktail and I'm fast asleep on the sofa within about

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five minutes.

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: No cocktails for us. I've got my cup of tea

Lee Griffith:

at the ready not a g&t to record this episode. Anyhow, this isn't

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what the listeners have tuned in to Aris talking about. But

Lee Griffith:

before we get into the good stuff of this episode, I'm just

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going to remind people where you can find us engage with us, tell

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us what you think leave us ratings or reviews. So we are on

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all of your favorite podcast platforms. So whichever is your

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desired listening platform of choice, you can find us there,

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you can visit the website how to take lead.com where you can sign

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up to our substack community where you can get engaged in

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conversations with other like minded leaders. And if you are a

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paid up member of that substack community, with every episode,

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you get some extra special exclusive content with prompts

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and tools and tips and resources and all sorts of things to help

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you to actually put into practice some of the things that

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we have talked about in the episode. And for those of you

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who are dulcet tones or not enough, and you'd like to see

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our faces, we are also over on YouTube. And of course we are on

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Instagram, if you want to engage with us on the socials. Have I

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forgotten anything? Lee?

Lee Griffith:

No, no, I think that was pretty, pretty robust

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in terms of housekeeping.

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Thank you very much say housekeeping done,

Lee Griffith:

let's get on to the topic for this episode of how to take the

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lead. And it is something that I think we have referenced before

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in other episodes of the podcast. But I'm not sure how

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much of a full and well rounded conversation we've had about it.

Lee Griffith:

But I wanted us to focus a bit of time and energy on talking

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about self leadership today. And I think it's a term that we're

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hearing a bit more of now. Self leadership is a thing. And I

Lee Griffith:

just thought it would be helpful for us to talk about what we

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think self leadership actually means what that looks like, and

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why it matters. So that was the first question I was going to

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pose Lee for listeners of this episode. What actually is self

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leadership? And when you look it up, it's really interesting

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because if you Google self leadership, so I did a bit of a

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Li and put it in Google. There are actually all sorts of

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different definitions of self leadership. So for the context

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of us having this conversation, how would you describe self

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leadership?

Lee Griffith:

So for me in the context of being at work, I

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always say it's how are you creating the right conditions

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for either high performance or to be successful, however you

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might define that success to be. So I think for me, and I love a

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bit of self leadership, it's one of the three things that I focus

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on in the work that I do with my clients. And I always say, it's

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all the stuff that you perceive to be leadership for others, but

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doing that for yourself. And it starts in a premise that you

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can't lead others well, if you don't know or can't lead

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yourself to begin with, it's that it's almost like, you know,

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when you're in an aeroplane, and they say, you've got to do your

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oxygen mask first, before helping others. That's how I see

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self leadership, you can't lead others if you don't know how to

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lead yourself well. So there's a whole load of stuff in that

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which I'm sure we'll get into what actually makes up your self

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leadership style. But as a headline, I think it's all about

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the conditions you're creating. And it goes hand in hand with

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personal leadership strategy, which we've spoken about in a

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previous episode, and your communication style. Those are

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the three things that I think are completely like inter woven

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linked cocked bucketed,

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Carrie-Ann Wade: whichever Slayer action you want to use,

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but I love that, and I absolutely loved what you said.

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And it really resonated with me, Lee about, it's all the things

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that you do to lead others, but doing it for yourself. I haven't

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actually paraphrase that perfectly, because you said it

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much more eloquently than that. But absolutely. And it's a bit

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like that age old saying, isn't it about taking your own advice,

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and it's often easy to give everyone else really good

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advice, but much harder to take it for yourself. So there's

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something for me about being intentional in that space,

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around creating those conditions, and putting things

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in place that enable you to feel like you're taking some level of

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control over that self leadership. So I think that's a

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really helpful context to kind of frame the conversation today.

Lee Griffith:

And you specifically mentioned, actually, when you started that

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conversation about self leadership for you in the

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workplace means, and I appreciate that some level of

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self leadership you can do in your personal life as well. But

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I was wondering, why does self leadership matter in the

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workplace? What's, you know, what's its significance in that

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particular settings? Obviously, that's where we're talking about

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being a leader in that professional space?

Lee Griffith:

Yeah, well, I think it matters, because how

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you show up matters as a leader. So if you're turning up and

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you're chaotic, in the way that you work, you're going to create

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stress and chaos amongst your teams. If you don't have

Lee Griffith:

boundaries, you're probably not going to respect boundaries of

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others, which can cause resentment, and erodes trust. If

Lee Griffith:

you don't look after yourself, you're gonna burn out or

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variation of that eventually. So everything that you do to

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yourself, sets a tone and sets a precedent for your team. And it

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gives a really strong message about your expectations and

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standards, and basically contributes to the culture that

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you're creating. And so that's why I think it is so so

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important, because it's it says so much.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Absolutely setting the tone actually was

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exactly the the phrase that I'd written down when I was thinking

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about this having this conversation, it's that role

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model. And isn't it other people around what behaviors are

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acceptable standards, all of that kind of stuff in the

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workplace. And I'm sure we've all got examples of and probably

Lee Griffith:

more examples of the bad times than the good times, in fact,

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whereby, you know, I recall working for a leader, I think

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I've used this example before, back in the day of the

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Blackberry, when the little light used to flash when you got

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an email, and there was almost some sort of unwritten rule that

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had been created, by the way that that leader operated and

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the tone that that leaders set that if if they decided to send

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you an email at 930, at night that you would respond. And

Lee Griffith:

actually, you know, there was almost this culture within the

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team that when when they contact us at hours, even if we're not

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on call, we better respond, because otherwise tomorrow is

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going to be such a hideous day because the way that leader will

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treat us will be really bad. So there is something in there

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isn't there about that role modeling, but it's so easy to

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find the bad examples and sometimes harder to find the

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good ones. Yeah, well, the

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flip of that is I do I am noticing more and more

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often with people's email signatures. Was this to the

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email signatures where they go, you know, I might be sending

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this outside of normal working hours, but I don't expect you to

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respond outside of your normal working hours. That's really

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clear about I'm doing what works for me, but that doesn't mean

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that works for you. similarly, there was a chief exec that I

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was in touch with. And I got a auto response back when I sent

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him an email. And it told me that he only checks his emails a

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couple of times a day. And this wasn't the most effective way to

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get ahold of him. And therefore, you know, you can either wait

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for a response, but if it's urgent, this is how you get in

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touch. And I think it's that real clarity. It sets the

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boundaries, it's clarity in your communication, it's about the

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standard that you set and that you expect from others. And if

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it's, I do think, I feel like I'm more aware and noticing it

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more and more from people.

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I love

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that actually about the out of office like auto response, I

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think I might give that a go. That's really, I really like

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that. That's good. And, and for me is well, it's like all my

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ANOVA go on properly to talk about some practical things that

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you can do, because you've set boundary setting. And that's

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something that I'm really passionate about, and a big part

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for me around around my own self leadership and then role

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modeling that to other people. But I also think there's

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something in there for me around the wellbeing piece. So while we

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are talking about self leadership mattering in the

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workplace, I do think it matters because it is about your own

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well being but also the well being of the people that you're

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leading, and actually how some of what you might be

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demonstrating through self leadership is about

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prioritizing, you know, personal well being maybe your mental

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health over some of the other things that certain leaders

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organizations might deem to be more important. And as you've

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said, that all impacts on the culture and the tone of your

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organization, that then as we've talked about, in other episodes

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of how to take the lead goes on to influence performance, and

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all of that kind of stuff. So hugely important for sure. I was

Lee Griffith:

going to move this on a little bit, though, because we've given

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a couple of examples about what self leadership might kind of

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mean, and why it matters, but is self leadership something that

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can be learned because I think with all of these things that we

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kind of coiner, I'm going to do a li now dualism coined a phrase

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or coined a term for and self leadership feels like a term

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that's maybe kind of come from that self care space, which has

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been quite popular way to describe a certain way of being

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is self leadership, something that people can learn? Or is it

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something that kind of, you have to sort of have to be about more

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naturally in order to demonstrate it? So yes, I

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think it's something you can learn. But I

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think it's also something that's always a work in progress,

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you're never perfect at it, because you adapt and change

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your context in which you operate in adapt and change all

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of these things, almost like shifting sands around you, which

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means you're constantly having to check in and evolve and

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understand. And so, yeah, I think it is something that you

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learn, I think, is also inextricably linked with your

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vulnerabilities and where you feel most exposed in the way

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that you lead. And therefore, it requires you to have some

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courage to work on it. And to tackle it, you need that self

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awareness, you need to have acceptance of where there are

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challenges and areas of opportunity for growth, you need

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to have real practical management approach to tackle

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some of that stuff. And yeah, you need to have a growth

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mindset. So yes, I think you can learn it, but you need to come

Lee Griffith:

in the right headspace to accept that it is something that you

Lee Griffith:

need to constantly work on. Yeah. And I find it interesting,

Lee Griffith:

because a lot of what I said at the beginning, this is something

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that I work on with a lot of my clients, but I would say 90% of

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the time when the clients come to me regarding they don't come

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to me and I want to work on myself leadership, they'll come

Lee Griffith:

with a problem or an issue where they if they feel like they're

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not making the impact that they want to make in their

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organization in their team. And it will whittle down to self

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leadership in one way or other strategy and communication as

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well. But it we always tend to be working on this constantly.

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And it's how they manage their stress and the pressure of the

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role. It's it's about them getting clarity in what they

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need to do in their role and what they're asking of other

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people in the role. So yeah, it's it's an all encompassing

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thing that you need to embrace. And it's probably that was a

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long way.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: And it's back to that point you made about it.

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It's those three things coming together, isn't it the strategy,

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the communication and the self leadership? So it isn't really a

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surprise to me when I hear you say actually, when you whittle

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it all down, the issues that you're working with with your

Lee Griffith:

clients can often come down to some sort of need in that self

Lee Griffith:

leadership space for that growth and that development and I am in

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agreement with you and interests. Sit in what you say

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about that growth mindset? Because I absolutely do think

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self leadership is something that can be learned. But it

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probably comes more naturally to some people than it does to

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others. If you are a person who, you know, is naturally curious,

Lee Griffith:

naturally wanting to constantly grow and evolve and develop

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yourself, and if you're a person who's maybe not as open to that,

Lee Griffith:

then you will probably find kind of thinking about self

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leadership a bit more challenging, and perhaps a bit

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more uncomfortable. And you talked about it's actually

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having that insight, isn't it really into the need to actually

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self lead and to grow and develop in that space. So

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without that insight, and that open mindedness, it probably

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will feel more difficult and like something that sounds like

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quite an alien thing to people. But I'm very hopeful that

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listeners of how to take the lead are in that growth mindset.

Lee Griffith:

And that's what they're, they're listening to the podcast, but

Lee Griffith:

so I was No, no, I was gonna say, and it does, it

Lee Griffith:

does feed back into the bigger question around when we when we

Lee Griffith:

say, you know, what is a leader and showing up as a good leader?

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And are you a leader, if you're not exhibiting certain

Lee Griffith:

attributes, and say that that self awareness, self growth,

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agenda almost is is a key part of being a lead? Or if you're

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lacking that, then do you have the quality to be a good leader?

Lee Griffith:

Is the question isn't

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Carrie-Ann Wade: it and it's that openness and transparency

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around that isn't it and I was saying earlier, it's it's easy

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to pick out all the times you've had bad leaders or challenging

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things have been happening. And it's hard to pick out the good,

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you know, more of the good things, particularly in this

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space. But I do recall working for a chief executive who

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absolutely, what I loved about working with them was that they

Lee Griffith:

were, they had the real insight. And they were really honest

Lee Griffith:

about the things that they found really difficult. And one of the

Lee Griffith:

things that they found really difficult was because they they

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got very operational, but that actually go, I know, I'm being

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too operational here. Because I have a tendency to move into

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that space when I personally feel stressed, because I like to

Lee Griffith:

feel that I'm in control. And I thought, well, even if they've

Lee Griffith:

not managed to always crack the fact that they're becoming a bit

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operational. The fact that they've actually recognized that

Lee Griffith:

in themselves as an area where they need to develop and they

Lee Griffith:

have that insight is a really good sign that they are somebody

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who is trying to practice self leadership. So there are good

Lee Griffith:

examples out there, it's just think sometimes easier to latch

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on to the to the more challenging one. But for me,

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it's definitely back to that point about being intentional in

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that space, really, like it's not something that just happens

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by chance, you don't know, it's just by coincidence that I'm

Lee Griffith:

focused on self leadership, I think you have to be really

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intentional and focused in that space.

Lee Griffith:

And because there are so many edits, as I said,

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right at the beginning, there are so many things that can make

Lee Griffith:

up your self leadership, there might be some stuff that you've,

Lee Griffith:

that feels pretty natural to you. And comes comes as a second

Lee Griffith:

nature, and then the things that you need to lean into. So you

Lee Griffith:

might be really clear on this is my leadership style. And this is

Lee Griffith:

my approach and my values and what I stand for. And you might

Lee Griffith:

have really poor boundaries, you might be a people pleaser, and

Lee Griffith:

that's, that's an area you've got to work on. You might be

Lee Griffith:

working in the weeds, and then that's demonstrated through

Lee Griffith:

micromanaging people and not being clear on what your setup

Lee Griffith:

is. And the type of schedule and rhythm that you work to. It

Lee Griffith:

might be that you're not that clear in how you're

Lee Griffith:

communicating said, but you might be clear on your

Lee Griffith:

boundaries, but you're not actually communicating it to

Lee Griffith:

someone. So there's so many different angles in which you

Lee Griffith:

come at it when you are looking at that self leadership piece.

Lee Griffith:

And some you'll be you'll be naturally great at and others

Lee Griffith:

will be a constant work in progress. Yeah,

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: the people pleasing and boundary setting is

Lee Griffith:

what really resonates with me. And it's something that I talk a

Lee Griffith:

lot about with people that I mentor. And interestingly, it

Lee Griffith:

seems to be the biggest game changer for people when they're

Lee Griffith:

struggling with self belief or confidence or having the impact

Lee Griffith:

that you talked about wanting to have in their team or

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organization or about really being able to demonstrate their

Lee Griffith:

value quite a lot a bit seems to come back with the people that I

Lee Griffith:

work with to that boundary setting bit and like you say

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some of it is the How comfortable do you feel in

Lee Griffith:

setting the boundary and some of it is about are you actually

Lee Griffith:

communicating to other people what those boundaries are, so

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you can really establish them and as a slight digression I

Lee Griffith:

actually saw something on social media earlier with Sharon Stone,

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talking about the fact that when she was what this is how she

Lee Griffith:

describes it, she said when I was a people pleaser, everybody

Lee Griffith:

helped me, like, everybody liked me. As soon as I started to put

Lee Griffith:

boundaries in place, less and less people liked me. But

Lee Griffith:

actually, I was okay with that, because other parts of my life

Lee Griffith:

became richer for me for having put those boundaries in place.

Lee Griffith:

So I think sometimes in that self leadership space, whether

Lee Griffith:

it's boundary setting or something else, you sometimes

Lee Griffith:

have to be okay with sitting in the discomfort of not quite

Lee Griffith:

getting it right, or working out what it is that you need to do,

Lee Griffith:

to progress. So we've started, I think, to work into this space a

Lee Griffith:

little bit now about some practicalities, because you've

Lee Griffith:

given a few examples working in the weeds boundary setting. And

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so I wondered, really, if you could start to describe what

Lee Griffith:

self leadership might look like in your daily life as a leader,

Lee Griffith:

because I think it feels like quite a grand term. And we've

Lee Griffith:

talked about needing insight and the opportunity to reflect and

Lee Griffith:

understand where you might, you know, need to do more in that

Lee Griffith:

self leadership space where you might naturally be doing okay.

Lee Griffith:

And I sort of thought practically, if you were

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listening to this, and self leadership is something that

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you've maybe not come across before, it might be quite hard

Lee Griffith:

to think about what that looks like for you as a leader. So

Lee Griffith:

have you got any thoughts or descriptions you can kind of

Lee Griffith:

give us as to what self leadership looks like in your

Lee Griffith:

daily life as a leader?

Lee Griffith:

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That was fairly likely, I

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: certainly have carry on, you've asked the right

Lee Griffith:

person.

Lee Griffith:

It's like a blue pizza. It's so fun. For me, I

Lee Griffith:

think. And I was thinking about this earlier. And has it changed

Lee Griffith:

when I left my corporate world and now run my own business or,

Lee Griffith:

or have my self leadership approaches been similar, but

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just the outcomes and outputs of change. And I think it's

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probably the latter. So at the heart of it is obviously who I

Lee Griffith:

am, what my what my style is how I want to be, and people to

Lee Griffith:

interact with me what they're going to get from me when they

Lee Griffith:

interact with me. So friendly, hopefully, that's how I come

Lee Griffith:

across, not too serious, but I will kind of call out the BS

Lee Griffith:

when when I hear it. And I can be quite direct in that effect.

Lee Griffith:

My values hopefully shine through, particularly integrity

Lee Griffith:

and authenticity, and all of that. So I've got my kind of who

Lee Griffith:

I am as a person, then I've got the, how do I approach work? So

Lee Griffith:

for me, that is, what's the type of work that I undertake? Who

Lee Griffith:

are the clients that I like to work with? Where do I want to

Lee Griffith:

invest my energy and attention day in day out in the corporate

Lee Griffith:

world that could be going back to that leadership strategy

Lee Griffith:

conversation that we had in a previous episode, the types of

Lee Griffith:

things that I really enjoyed and excelled versus what I didn't

Lee Griffith:

think I was that great at so clarity in that part. How I

Lee Griffith:

manage my day to day nurse, because I think that's a really

Lee Griffith:

important thing. So the boundaries around what days I

Lee Griffith:

work, I'm really clear on what am I working days in my

Lee Griffith:

business? And what aren't? What are my client facing days in my

Lee Griffith:

business? And when do I work kind of behind the scenes? What

Lee Griffith:

are the hours that I work, what's in and out of scope of

Lee Griffith:

the work that I do with clients and being clear with them from

Lee Griffith:

the outset so that I'm setting that context and clarity around

Lee Griffith:

what they can expect from me at what point and sticking to that

Lee Griffith:

if they try and challenge it in a really nice way. It's about my

Lee Griffith:

self care. So how I look after myself how I make sure I'm

Lee Griffith:

taking regular breaks, I'm eating well, I'm exercising

Lee Griffith:

again, when I was in my corporate world and I see this

Lee Griffith:

with some of the clients that I don't talk to. It's all well and

Lee Griffith:

good. You working really long hours, and being the first in

Lee Griffith:

the office and the last to leave and never taken a break and

Lee Griffith:

think it's you know, Hero mentality because you've walked

Lee Griffith:

down a sandwich and giving yourself indigestion but What's

Lee Griffith:

that telling other people? Yeah, and when you when you behave

Lee Griffith:

like that

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: yeah, as well as telling other people that

Lee Griffith:

that's the expectation you have of how they'll behave that

Lee Griffith:

you're potentially doing yourself a disservice because

Lee Griffith:

actually that can be perceived as you've been some days not

Lee Griffith:

really that in control and can't manage their workplace and their

Lee Griffith:

priorities in the sort of focus say normal whatever normal is

Lee Griffith:

like the the normal hours or you know, way in which other people

Lee Griffith:

would do it. So absolutely that hero mentality is something that

Lee Griffith:

I've do really struggled with and I see a lot you know, with

Lee Griffith:

leaders that I work with in the comms profession if I'm honest,

Lee Griffith:

like breathing breathing I'm yeah doing like how busy I Yeah,

Lee Griffith:

and all of that, you know, that's not, you're not

Lee Griffith:

doing anyone any favors by saying how busy you are with

Lee Griffith:

time. It just shows you probably not really in control of what

Lee Griffith:

you're what you're working on, or you don't have your

Lee Griffith:

boundaries in place. See,

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: and it can be quite disrespectful to other

Lee Griffith:

people actually, if you're coming across like that person

Lee Griffith:

who's always super busy, but too busy for you. Because I've got

Lee Griffith:

all these really important things to do. It can be very

Lee Griffith:

disrespectful of other people who might need some of your time

Lee Griffith:

and energy and knowledge for stuff. But you're just far, far,

Lee Griffith:

far too busy to, to give it to them. So I can see that. Yeah,

Lee Griffith:

got a lot of downforce to operate on that way.

Lee Griffith:

So I take the kind of who I am, how I'm showing up

Lee Griffith:

how I'm looking after myself, as the three things that I'm

Lee Griffith:

constantly checking in, and it is a constant check in is

Lee Griffith:

bringing awareness to all those parts, and bringing awareness to

Lee Griffith:

my, the emotional kind of intelligence part, how am I

Lee Griffith:

making other people feel? How do I feel? And is that something

Lee Griffith:

that I'm happy with? Does it feel aligned with what I'm

Lee Griffith:

striving to do? And

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: do you know what I think you saying it, and

Lee Griffith:

we love, we're a singer threes today, I feel like you know who

Lee Griffith:

you are, how you're showing up, and how you're taking care of

Lee Griffith:

yourself is a really nice, fairly simple way to try and

Lee Griffith:

explain that. But I think it can be really easy for some leaders

Lee Griffith:

to feel totally comfortable in the space of who I am, because

Lee Griffith:

they've probably done a lot of work on personal values and all

Lee Griffith:

of that kind of stuff. But actually probably a bit more

Lee Griffith:

challenging in that space of how am I showing up? But also, how

Lee Griffith:

am I taking care of myself. And when you were talking there, it

Lee Griffith:

was making me think in that How am I showing up space about, I

Lee Griffith:

can already see that there might be people listening go? Well,

Lee Griffith:

it's really easy to show up in the way that these just

Lee Griffith:

described because she runs her own business. And she works for

Lee Griffith:

herself. And she has that autonomy and freedom of choice.

Lee Griffith:

And really easily get sucked into this space of like, I work

Lee Griffith:

for the big corporation or whatever. And I work for someone

Lee Griffith:

else, even though I'm a leader. And I don't have the opportunity

Lee Griffith:

to do that. But I would really challenge people, particularly

Lee Griffith:

those in leadership positions. But I think everyone to some

Lee Griffith:

level has a degree of autonomy around how they spend their

Lee Griffith:

working day, there will always be things that we are required

Lee Griffith:

to do and deliver. But the way in which we choose to do that we

Lee Griffith:

do have a level of control over and appreciate that varying

Lee Griffith:

degrees may be dependent on what your role is. But absolutely you

Lee Griffith:

can be choosing which meetings are of most benefit for you to

Lee Griffith:

be present at and turning down the meetings were absolutely

Lee Griffith:

there's no value add for you being there for you or for other

Lee Griffith:

people in the room. But some of that requires maybe, again, back

Lee Griffith:

in that uncomfy space, having some challenging conversations,

Lee Griffith:

because you're not just saying yes to everything, you're making

Lee Griffith:

some choices about how you are operating. So I was really

Lee Griffith:

intrigued by what you said about like kind of managing yourself

Lee Griffith:

and actually how you operate on a day to day basis. Because I

Lee Griffith:

think there would definitely be some people who would be more

Lee Griffith:

comfortable saying, Well, I don't have a choice. And I

Lee Griffith:

genuinely don't believe that that's true.

Lee Griffith:

But it's how you you know, if thinking about and

Lee Griffith:

you're right on the organizational front, it is

Lee Griffith:

different. Obviously, it's easier for me, running my own

Lee Griffith:

business, what I choose to do and how I choose to engage. But

Lee Griffith:

even when I worked in corporate and the work I do now when I'm

Lee Griffith:

supporting leaders to go through this process for themselves and

Lee Griffith:

for them to determine. And it's simple things like how am I

Lee Griffith:

given permission to my PA to be a better gatekeeper for me and

Lee Griffith:

to filter things because I'm being pulled into the weeds and

Lee Griffith:

people are trying to bypass process and procedure to come to

Lee Griffith:

me because they'll think I'll come and rescue. So if I've got

Lee Griffith:

clarity in what it is I'm trying to achieve, how am I enabling

Lee Griffith:

those around me to be supportive and give them permission to do

Lee Griffith:

the jobs that they need to do? When I when I worked in

Lee Griffith:

corporate, I'd be doing things like putting together not

Lee Griffith:

putting together putting aside half day every now and then

Lee Griffith:

where I would work just on strategy stuff. And I've seen

Lee Griffith:

many chief execs do that where they'll they'll spend a couple

Lee Griffith:

of hours, whether it's once a week, once a fortnight, where

Lee Griffith:

they are not at dinos closed door or they might not be on

Lee Griffith:

site, but they're doing that bigger picture thinking that

Lee Griffith:

only they can do. I used to put buffers around my meetings so

Lee Griffith:

that people couldn't just bounce me from one thing to another to

Lee Griffith:

another. And I'd be really grumpy about you know, if I

Lee Griffith:

wasn't getting my food.

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: He's really friendly apart from when she's

Lee Griffith:

not had her lunch.

Lee Griffith:

But I would be you know, how am I finding time to

Lee Griffith:

get up and have a walk about and go and get some food and yeah,

Lee Griffith:

of course I would just sit over Sit and eat my lunch at the desk

Lee Griffith:

like most people do. At some point, sometimes that was free

Lee Griffith:

choice. And I would just be reading newspaper or catching up

Lee Griffith:

on something that was a different type of thinking, from

Lee Griffith:

the drudgery of the day to day. Sometimes I'd be making sure I

Lee Griffith:

was going out or going to sit in the canteen because I wanted to

Lee Griffith:

be more visible. And people see that I wasn't always just sat on

Lee Griffith:

my desk. So these are choices you get to make

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: absolutely and and you don't get to make them

Lee Griffith:

just because you're a leader. So some of the things you talked

Lee Griffith:

about, you know, sometimes people operate in chaos, and

Lee Griffith:

that that's not a good sign. And that's something that from a

Lee Griffith:

self leadership point of view you need to work on, it's really

Lee Griffith:

small changes. But really practical things have helped me

Lee Griffith:

to feel less chaotic in my working life and feel like I'm

Lee Griffith:

exercising some level of control. So I've completely

Lee Griffith:

changed the way that I write my to do list. So I used to be the

Lee Griffith:

queen of one massive, great big long list where something might

Lee Griffith:

randomly be crossed off in the middle of it. But I've added 10

Lee Griffith:

things on the bottom, and it's like never ending and now I do

Lee Griffith:

mining columns where I've got like my five minute jobs, my

Lee Griffith:

sort of half an hour tasks that need a bit more input from me.

Lee Griffith:

And then I've got like my projects, which require more

Lee Griffith:

time. And I couple that with time blocking in my diary for

Lee Griffith:

all of these different things. So like you say, you can't just

Lee Griffith:

bounce me in and out of meetings, because I blocked out

Lee Griffith:

an hour to do two of my 30 minute tasks on that day,

Lee Griffith:

because I know I need to get them done or have in my three

Lee Griffith:

non negotiables this week that I have to achieve, which I will

Lee Griffith:

prioritize over anything else that comes in that week. So

Lee Griffith:

there, there are lots of really practical things you can do, I

Lee Griffith:

think, to just help you manage yourself in a way that you are

Lee Griffith:

showing up in the workplace. But as you say, also role model to

Lee Griffith:

others, that it's okay for them to do that as well. And I think

Lee Griffith:

for me, that's a really important part of it. So while

Lee Griffith:

we are talking about self leadership and doing it for you

Lee Griffith:

today, I do think those points we made earlier about what time

Lee Griffith:

that sets in your organization, how you role model to others is

Lee Griffith:

really important, because that is about the culture that you

Lee Griffith:

start to create for sure.

Lee Griffith:

And I think it's even you we often talk about,

Lee Griffith:

you know, where's leadership going to go how a workplace

Lee Griffith:

changing the fact that you've got multi generations now,

Lee Griffith:

people are going to take different things in the way that

Lee Griffith:

you behave and act. And the fact that people may be working from

Lee Griffith:

home or working in a more flexible environment. Again,

Lee Griffith:

boundaries might look different ways of working might look

Lee Griffith:

different. How you look after yourself might be different.

Lee Griffith:

Because you actually you might need to physically get away from

Lee Griffith:

your desk, if you just sat on Zoom calls all day, getting up

Lee Griffith:

and about and saying that's okay.

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Yeah. And there's something you mentioned

Lee Griffith:

earlier, and it was making me think about it. And he said

Lee Griffith:

about that flex based on different generations. But also,

Lee Griffith:

like things flex, because things different things happen in your

Lee Griffith:

organization, or in your role as a leader that you're not always

Lee Griffith:

going to have control over. But you might need to be intentional

Lee Griffith:

about how you choose to manage. And you know, some of that might

Lee Griffith:

be about how you're showing up. But some of it might also be

Lee Griffith:

about looking after yourself. And I know we've talked before

Lee Griffith:

about, you know, times when organizations are in crisis or

Lee Griffith:

sort of long term crisis and leaders feel like they just have

Lee Griffith:

to keep going and keep going and keep going. But actually that

Lee Griffith:

that bit that's more about self care is really important, isn't

Lee Griffith:

it, take a break, be able to breathe, reflect, like, have

Lee Griffith:

that opportunity to step away from something because

Lee Griffith:

fundamentally or be better in the long run for you to do that.

Lee Griffith:

So I guess I'm back back a bit to that hero mentality that we

Lee Griffith:

were talking about. But I think that kind of chunking it into

Lee Griffith:

the three is a really good way to start to look and assess kind

Lee Griffith:

of the areas where you're, you might be doing really well, but

Lee Griffith:

the areas where there's still a need for development. And think

Lee Griffith:

about the really practical things that you can put in place

Lee Griffith:

in your daily life as a leader. So I just noticed how long we've

Lee Griffith:

been talking for. And I knew this would be something that we

Lee Griffith:

would want to talk a lot about. But as is always our tradition

Lee Griffith:

with how to take lead. We like to leave the conversation with

Lee Griffith:

something there for our listeners. And I just wondered

Lee Griffith:

if this is a topic that interests the listeners, how can

Lee Griffith:

they start to develop further in this space? Have you got any top

Lee Griffith:

tips, resources, things you want to signpost, people to to help

Lee Griffith:

them really start to think about self leadership in a different

Lee Griffith:

way if it's something that they've not considered before?

Lee Griffith:

Yeah,

Lee Griffith:

I mean, rewind this episode and go back and

Lee Griffith:

listen again if some of the prompts but I think for me, it's

Lee Griffith:

starting from a point of clarity. So how are you leading

Lee Griffith:

yourself? And it's asking that question of When I'm leading

Lee Griffith:

myself, well, I am doing X, Y, and Zed. So being really

Lee Griffith:

specific of the things that that you think happen when you're

Lee Griffith:

leading well, and then ask yourself the counter question

Lee Griffith:

when I'm being ineffective. I am, X, Y, Zed, whatever that

Lee Griffith:

might be. And it's a good opportunity to get feedback from

Lee Griffith:

from people around you, as well to find out like how you're

Lee Griffith:

showing up well, and when when things might be challenged,

Lee Griffith:

because it might be certain contexts, it could be certain

Lee Griffith:

situations, it could be one of those particular areas we've

Lee Griffith:

covered in terms of self leadership. I think there's

Lee Griffith:

something about asking yourself, what might be getting in the way

Lee Griffith:

of you showing up as the type of leader that you want to be. And

Lee Griffith:

I do an exercise with my clients when we are working through

Lee Griffith:

their personal strategy. And one of the questions I always ask

Lee Griffith:

them is to achieve this, what will I need to do differently.

Lee Griffith:

And it brings some real clarity in some big ticket areas of

Lee Griffith:

where things might need to start to shift. And I would say this,

Lee Griffith:

but I do genuinely believe this, working with a coach can be

Lee Griffith:

really helpful to to ask those slightly more challenging

Lee Griffith:

questions. It's not about a coached won't tell you what to

Lee Griffith:

do. But they will help you to take ownership yourself of the

Lee Griffith:

need to change. And I think my final point is the thing that I

Lee Griffith:

talked about earlier, which is this is a constant cycle. So

Lee Griffith:

make sure you've got that regular check in with yourself

Lee Griffith:

and with others about how you're doing, have some types of goals

Lee Griffith:

so you can see the difference and your evidence in the changes

Lee Griffith:

that you're making. And look at how am I developing my skills?

Lee Griffith:

How am I developing myself awareness? How am I developing

Lee Griffith:

and growing as a leader? I'm

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: loving the blankety blank style prompts the

Lee Griffith:

like fill in the blanks, and another nice reference for only

Lee Griffith:

some of our listeners might get. And I also think that is the

Lee Griffith:

killer question, isn't it that achievement question like what

Lee Griffith:

do I need to do differently in order to achieve this? I think

Lee Griffith:

it's such a good question. So I don't disagree with anything you

Lee Griffith:

said. And I'm actually really glad you brought feedback in

Lee Griffith:

because I think we ended up talking about feedback on pretty

Lee Griffith:

much every episode about Italy. But how are you doing that?

Lee Griffith:

Testing, I think is really important because what you

Lee Griffith:

perceive and what others are experiencing might be might be a

Lee Griffith:

bit different. And I guess the only extras I would add is in

Lee Griffith:

this space. For me. I have really enjoyed some of Brene

Lee Griffith:

Browns conversations, particularly around dare to

Lee Griffith:

lead. So the book, but she's on podcasts, she's TED talks, and I

Lee Griffith:

think she does provide some challenge in that space that

Lee Griffith:

isn't just about leadership, but is about self leadership. And I

Lee Griffith:

also think some of the things that we've talked about,

Lee Griffith:

particularly in the kind of how you're showing up and the the

Lee Griffith:

kind of self care piece how you're looking after yourself,

Lee Griffith:

are about habits and forming some good habits. So I would

Lee Griffith:

also recommend Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by

Lee Griffith:

Stephen Covey, if people wanted to read and I realized I haven't

Lee Griffith:

given a book recommendation for a while, so I thought I would

Lee Griffith:

throw those in to end the conversation. So I know we could

Lee Griffith:

talk about this. More I'm sure we'll revisit some of this as it

Lee Griffith:

is appropriate in future episodes. But I want to say

Lee Griffith:

thanks for sharing me I feel a bit inspired now to kind of

Lee Griffith:

revisit my own thinking around self leadership. So um, thanks

Lee Griffith:

for the mini coaching. For me today and for the listeners. And

Lee Griffith:

I hope people enjoyed this episode. And until next time,

Lee Griffith:

we'll talk again.

Lee Griffith:

See you unknown. Thanks for listening. Don't

Lee Griffith:

forget to hit follow to make sure you get the next episode.

Lee Griffith:

And if today's discussion resonated, please leave a review

Lee Griffith:

on Apple podcasts. We

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: also have our substack community where you can

Lee Griffith:

get behind the scenes info, Ask Us Anything session and build

Lee Griffith:

your network with like minded leaders. Visit how to take the

Lee Griffith:

lead.substack.com To find out

Lee Griffith:

more. And if you want to work with us to

Lee Griffith:

challenge and change leadership in your organization. Get in

Lee Griffith:

touch by dropping us an email how to take the lead@gmail.com

Lee Griffith:

or DMS on the socials. Until next week,

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: get out there and take the lead

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About the Podcast

How to Take the Lead
Unfiltered conversations for the modern leader
How to Take the Lead is a show exploring all things leadership.

Every week we'll be exploring a different part of life as a leader, questioning everything we've ever learnt and sharing a few of our own stories along the way.

If you want to learn how to do leadership your own way, join hosts Lee Griffith (from www.sundayskies.com) and Carrie-Ann Wade (from www.cats-pajamas.co.uk) as they debunk myths, tackle stereotypes and generally put the leadership world to rights.

New episodes are released every Thursday. To get involved, share your thoughts and stories or to ask questions visit www.howtotakethelead.com or DM us via instagram, LinkedIn or twitter.
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About your hosts

Lee Griffith

Profile picture for Lee Griffith
Lee Griffith is an executive coach and leadership communications strategist who works with CEOs and senior leaders to maximise their impact, which means helping them to increase operational effectiveness, improve staff engagement and build a reputation based on high-performance and a great culture.

A former award-winning communications and engagement director with over 20 years of experience, Lee has supported everything from major incidents to reconfigurations, turnarounds and transformations. She specialises in helping leaders build their authority and influence to deliver their organisation’s vision and strategy.

As well as being one part of the How to Take the Lead collaborative, Lee also hosts 'Leaders with impact', a podcast sharing the stories and strategies of success from those who have done it their own way.

Find out more via www.sundayskies.com.

Carrie-Ann Wade

Profile picture for Carrie-Ann Wade
Carrie-Ann Wade is a communications director in the NHS with over 20 years of communications and marketing experience. She is also founder of Cat’s Pajamas Communications which focuses on mentoring communications professionals to grow and thrive in their careers.

She has most recently been a finalist in the inaugural Comms Hero Fearless Trailblazer award and shortlisted in the National Facilitation Awards 2023. She was named one of F:entrepreneur's #ialso100 2020 top female entrepreneurs and business leaders, and Cat’s Pajamas has been recognised in Small Business Saturday's UK #SmallBiz100, as a business with impact.

She is one part of the How to Take the Lead collaborative, and cohost of a podcast with the same name, exploring the challenges and opportunities of modern day leadership. Carrie-Ann also hosts ‘Behind The Bob, Diary of a Comms Director’, a podcast supporting aspiring communications leaders.

Find out more via www.cats-pajamas.co.uk